Discussion:
Loran-C Simulation
(too old to reply)
gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
2018-09-10 17:56:34 UTC
Permalink
Although eLoran is still being transmitted from Anthorn in the UK, simultaneously as master and secondary after the Lessay master closed down, it seems to have more of an experimental rather than "official" status these days and with no guarantees as to future availability.


Without wanting to invite too much further discussion as to the viability of Loran vs GPS I would like to be able to keep my Austron and SRS Loran kit up and running, and referenced to GPS if possible, if, or when, the Anthorn service is withdrawn.




Paul Swedberg's 2009 design for a Loran-C simulator looks to be ideal for this but the Ubicom SX B microprocessor seems to have long been unobtanium, so just wondering if Paul, or anyone else perhaps, has ported this to a currently available device or whether there are any other DIY designs available?


Nigel GM8PZR







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Poul-Henning Kamp
2018-09-10 18:19:16 UTC
Permalink
--------
Post by gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
Paul Swedberg's 2009 design for a Loran-C simulator looks to be
ideal for this but the Ubicom SX B microprocessor seems to have
long been unobtanium, so just wondering if Paul, or anyone else
perhaps, has ported this to a currently available device or whether
there are any other DIY designs available?
You can get surprisingly far with a 1MSPS 8 bit DAC and a microcontroller.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
***@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

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paul swed
2018-09-10 18:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Nigel I am still here and agree the SXB is long gone. But I shared the code
and it was in basic.
An arduino with higher speed will do a fantastic job of replacing that very
simple code. It is indeed simple.
I have no plan to do that conversion but maybe I will some day.
The real trick was the timing chain that offloaded the control proc.
I do imagine that all of that can be done in one arduino.
I just picked up 3 of the stm32 units for $0 pretty much and they run at 75
MHz.
The SXB was 8 bit so it was a bit messy with some of the counts and such
that were needed.
Hope that inspires you or anyone else that wants to take a run at it.
It does work and runs my LORAN C stuff just fine.
Lucky you to have at least one site running.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 1:56 PM, gandalfg8--- via time-nuts <
Post by gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
Although eLoran is still being transmitted from Anthorn in the UK,
simultaneously as master and secondary after the Lessay master closed down,
it seems to have more of an experimental rather than "official" status
these days and with no guarantees as to future availability.
Without wanting to invite too much further discussion as to the viability
of Loran vs GPS I would like to be able to keep my Austron and SRS Loran
kit up and running, and referenced to GPS if possible, if, or when, the
Anthorn service is withdrawn.
Paul Swedberg's 2009 design for a Loran-C simulator looks to be ideal for
this but the Ubicom SX B microprocessor seems to have long been unobtanium,
so just wondering if Paul, or anyone else perhaps, has ported this to a
currently available device or whether there are any other DIY designs
available?
Nigel GM8PZR
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gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
2018-09-11 19:38:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your reply, I did know you were still here and had considered writing direct, but felt the subject might be of interest to others too:-)

Given the demise of the SXB I was expecting there might have been at least a few other projects by now,
especially with all the Austron kit that must still be out there and with FS700s going for very reasonable prices a few years ago,
but it seems that, so far at least, yours is still the only option, so perhaps there's not as much interest as I was expecting after all.

Writing code really isn't my thing, I have written database software for monitoring systems but that was around 25 years ago,
and earlier more technical efforts in Fortran and machine code were probably another 25 years before that!
I've been threatening to learn to code for the PIC and then the Arduino for ages now but it's not happened yet,
and with the ever intrusive to do list never getting any shorter I'm not holding my breath.

Having said that, I did take a look at your Basic code and must admit is does look pretty straightforward, even to me,
and I have recently bought some Arduino modules, although again for a project running somebody else's code,
so once I have the IDE loaded I might have a play anyway.
I would expect quite a well drawn out learning curve though, which given my current progress might well turn out to be infinite:-)

We are indeed very lucky to have Anthorn still running but I can't help feeling it could be running on borrowed time
and would like to be prepared just in case.

Nigel, GM8PZR




Nigel I am still here and agree the SXB is long gone. But I shared the code
and it was in basic.
An arduino with higher speed will do a fantastic job of replacing that very
simple code. It is indeed simple.
I have no plan to do that conversion but maybe I will some day.
The real trick was the timing chain that offloaded the control proc.
I do imagine that all of that can be done in one arduino.
I just picked up 3 of the stm32 units for $0 pretty much and they run at 75
MHz.
The SXB was 8 bit so it was a bit messy with some of the counts and such
that were needed.
Hope that inspires you or anyone else that wants to take a run at it.
It does work and runs my LORAN C stuff just fine.
Lucky you to have at least one site running.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL









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Robert LaJeunesse
2018-09-11 20:40:08 UTC
Permalink
FWIW there exists an online reference for SX BASIC at http://www.piclist.com/techref/parallax/sxb/sxb/___index.html which may prove helpful in understanding the SX-B code.

Unfortunately I can not find the SX-B BASIC compiler online anymore. http://www.parallax.com/sx/sxb.asp is 404.

Bob L.
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 3:38 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Loran-C Simulation
...
Having said that, I did take a look at your Basic code and must admit is does look pretty straightforward, even to me,
...
Nigel, GM8PZR
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paul swed
2018-09-13 23:04:06 UTC
Permalink
I am on a business trip so that’s why not response
Airplane doesn’t make typing easy
I always try my darndest to keep it simple
The code will translate to radii our easily
As you see it’s bit sequences
Dumb simple stupid
Only a year or so ago I did my first arguing it was the Webb d poker very
good online help
It’s far shorter then you think
Arduino I see apples help

On Tue, Sep 11, 2018 at 6:08 PM Edesio Costa e Silva <
Hello!
<
https://web.archive.org/web/20070207143220/http://www.parallax.com/sx/sxb.asp>.
This
is just one snapshot, there are other ones.
Edésio
Post by Robert LaJeunesse
FWIW there exists an online reference for SX BASIC at
http://www.piclist.com/techref/parallax/sxb/sxb/___index.html which may
prove helpful in understanding the SX-B code.
Post by Robert LaJeunesse
Unfortunately I can not find the SX-B BASIC compiler online anymore.
http://www.parallax.com/sx/sxb.asp is 404.
Post by Robert LaJeunesse
Bob L.
Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2018 at 3:38 PM
Subject: [time-nuts] Loran-C Simulation
...
Having said that, I did take a look at your Basic code and must admit
is does look pretty straightforward, even to me,
Post by Robert LaJeunesse
...
Nigel, GM8PZR
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Post by Robert LaJeunesse
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gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
2018-09-12 09:31:23 UTC
Permalink
Thanks to Robert and Edesio I now have all the Parallax tools, which I must admit I thought were also lost.


Fortunately there's no immediate panic with Anthorn still running for now so I'll still take a look at a possible
Arduino alternative, but will also keep hunting for a live SX-B28:-)


Nigel, GM8PZR

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paul swed
2018-09-15 03:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Nigel
Returned from a business trip this week.
Glad you are making progress.
You are lucky to have an active station to run your equipment.
I do agree that the various equipment now surplus is really nice.
Though I still see strange things at crazy prices on some web sites.
If you do proceed on arduino happy to try to give you pointers.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL

On Wed, Sep 12, 2018 at 5:31 AM, gandalfg8--- via time-nuts <
Post by gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
Thanks to Robert and Edesio I now have all the Parallax tools, which I
must admit I thought were also lost.
Fortunately there's no immediate panic with Anthorn still running for now
so I'll still take a look at a possible
Arduino alternative, but will also keep hunting for a live SX-B28:-)
Nigel, GM8PZR
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gandalfg8--- via time-nuts
2018-09-17 17:19:25 UTC
Permalink
Hi Paul,


We're certainly very lucky that Anthorn's still up and running, especially as it's only 90 miles from here:-), but I don't know why and wouldn't want to take it for granted.


Thanks to the generosity of two other list members, for which I'm extremely grateful, it would seem I've avoided the Arduino route for now and should soon be in a position to replicate your SX project after all.



Aside from the previously mentioned Wayback Machine availability of SH-Key software and documentation I've since also discovered the Parallax forums which look to be a great source of information and still seem to be active, so although late to the party there might still be time to have some fun:-)


And there's always that Arduino controlled Si5351A synthesiser still lurking in the background:-)


Nigel, GM8PZR






Nigel
Returned from a business trip this week.
Glad you are making progress.
You are lucky to have an active station to run your equipment.
I do agree that the various equipment now surplus is really nice.
Though I still see strange things at crazy prices on some web sites.
If you do proceed on arduino happy to try to give you pointers.


Regards


Paul



WB8TSL




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