Discussion:
Still looking for a schematic drawing for Oscilloquartz 8600-3 (945.860.011.03 S/N 422)
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Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts
2018-10-25 17:56:37 UTC
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Permalink
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz 8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about thisunit available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards

Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV

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Bob kb8tq
2018-10-25 18:13:47 UTC
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Hi

Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply internal details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it. They then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.

Bob
Post by Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz 8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about thisunit available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
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paul swed
2018-10-25 18:24:42 UTC
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Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply internal
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it. They
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about thisunit
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
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http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
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Azelio Boriani
2018-10-25 19:36:47 UTC
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Permalink
Images of the 8600 can be found here:
<http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/osa8600/>
A paper on the 8607 BVA with the oven schematic is here:
<http://rubiola.org/pdf-articles/conference/2007-ifcs-xtal-osa.pdf>
Maybe it is similar to the 8600's oven.
Post by paul swed
Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply internal
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it. They
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about thisunit
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
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and follow the instructions there.
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Adrian Godwin
2018-10-25 20:05:56 UTC
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Those are excellent images. Just needs a shot of the track side of the
larger board.
Post by Azelio Boriani
<http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/osa8600/>
<http://rubiola.org/pdf-articles/conference/2007-ifcs-xtal-osa.pdf>
Maybe it is similar to the 8600's oven.
Post by paul swed
Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply
internal
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it.
They
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It
had
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about
thisunit
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
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Post by paul swed
and follow the instructions there.
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Mark Goldberg
2018-10-25 19:38:21 UTC
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Permalink
I agree they likely won't provide a schematic and will want it back for
repair. If it is a proprietary design for someone, they may not even repair
it for you and certainly won't give you any info. I was at least able to
get a little info from Wenzel about a similar oscillator I was looking at
and they gave me hints about what the one I had was not, basically not
telling me info but keeping me from heading down the wrong path. If you ask
nicely via email and are understanding about their situation with
proprietary products, maybe they will be of some help.

I have reverse engineered a couple of oscillators. You don't have to
reverse engineer the whole thing, just the frequency adjustment section. I
don't know anything about this oscillator but you can determine what the
available adjustment is, a pot or a trimmer cap. If it is a pot, is there
another resistor that sets the course adjustment? If it is a trimmer cap,
there is usually a parallel cap that sets the course adjustment. Possibly
those could be replaced with different values to get the adjustment range
back. Worth a try.

If you can look at the circuit around the crystal, you likely can determine
what the oscillator topology is.

Can you tell if the oven is working? Typically it will draw more current on
startup and then reduce the current draw after a while when it gets to
temperature. I've found broken heater wires before.

Regards,

Mark
Post by paul swed
Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply
internal
Post by Bob kb8tq
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it. They
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about
thisunit
Post by Bob kb8tq
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
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Bob kb8tq
2018-10-25 23:13:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Hi

One fairly real possibility - it can’t be repaired. The tuning range of a BVA based oscillator is pretty
small. It may be that the crystal has simply aged further than it can be tuned.

Assuming the device is still operating properly, there are a lot of uses for a working “1Hz off” 5 MHz
OCXO …..

Bob
Post by Mark Goldberg
I agree they likely won't provide a schematic and will want it back for
repair. If it is a proprietary design for someone, they may not even repair
it for you and certainly won't give you any info. I was at least able to
get a little info from Wenzel about a similar oscillator I was looking at
and they gave me hints about what the one I had was not, basically not
telling me info but keeping me from heading down the wrong path. If you ask
nicely via email and are understanding about their situation with
proprietary products, maybe they will be of some help.
I have reverse engineered a couple of oscillators. You don't have to
reverse engineer the whole thing, just the frequency adjustment section. I
don't know anything about this oscillator but you can determine what the
available adjustment is, a pot or a trimmer cap. If it is a pot, is there
another resistor that sets the course adjustment? If it is a trimmer cap,
there is usually a parallel cap that sets the course adjustment. Possibly
those could be replaced with different values to get the adjustment range
back. Worth a try.
If you can look at the circuit around the crystal, you likely can determine
what the oscillator topology is.
Can you tell if the oven is working? Typically it will draw more current on
startup and then reduce the current draw after a while when it gets to
temperature. I've found broken heater wires before.
Regards,
Mark
Post by paul swed
Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply
internal
Post by Bob kb8tq
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it. They
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about
thisunit
Post by Bob kb8tq
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
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paul swed
2018-10-26 00:37:00 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Hello to the group.
Ulf looks like a lot of people are trying to help.
Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that there often is a tuning cap of
some fixed value.
I have actually slightly adjusted those to fix as an example a HP 10811.
Typically its a single cap.
But it can't hurt to try changing it if you can figure out the cap.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
One fairly real possibility - it can’t be repaired. The tuning range of a
BVA based oscillator is pretty
small. It may be that the crystal has simply aged further than it can be tuned.
Assuming the device is still operating properly, there are a lot of uses
for a working “1Hz off” 5 MHz
OCXO …..
Bob
Post by Mark Goldberg
I agree they likely won't provide a schematic and will want it back for
repair. If it is a proprietary design for someone, they may not even
repair
Post by Mark Goldberg
it for you and certainly won't give you any info. I was at least able to
get a little info from Wenzel about a similar oscillator I was looking at
and they gave me hints about what the one I had was not, basically not
telling me info but keeping me from heading down the wrong path. If you
ask
Post by Mark Goldberg
nicely via email and are understanding about their situation with
proprietary products, maybe they will be of some help.
I have reverse engineered a couple of oscillators. You don't have to
reverse engineer the whole thing, just the frequency adjustment section.
I
Post by Mark Goldberg
don't know anything about this oscillator but you can determine what the
available adjustment is, a pot or a trimmer cap. If it is a pot, is there
another resistor that sets the course adjustment? If it is a trimmer cap,
there is usually a parallel cap that sets the course adjustment. Possibly
those could be replaced with different values to get the adjustment range
back. Worth a try.
If you can look at the circuit around the crystal, you likely can
determine
Post by Mark Goldberg
what the oscillator topology is.
Can you tell if the oven is working? Typically it will draw more current
on
Post by Mark Goldberg
startup and then reduce the current draw after a while when it gets to
temperature. I've found broken heater wires before.
Regards,
Mark
Post by paul swed
Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply
internal
Post by Bob kb8tq
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back to
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it.
They
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It
had
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about
thisunit
Post by Bob kb8tq
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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Post by Mark Goldberg
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
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Jim Harman
2018-10-26 01:21:36 UTC
Reply
Permalink
If I had to guess from the photos, I would try the resistors on standoffs
next to the 20K pot at the bottom of the photo OSC_02. I assume the pot is
the frequency adjustment.
Post by paul swed
Hello to the group.
Ulf looks like a lot of people are trying to help.
Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that there often is a tuning cap of
some fixed value.
I have actually slightly adjusted those to fix as an example a HP 10811.
Typically its a single cap.
But it can't hurt to try changing it if you can figure out the cap.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
One fairly real possibility - it can’t be repaired. The tuning range of
a
Post by Bob kb8tq
BVA based oscillator is pretty
small. It may be that the crystal has simply aged further than it can be tuned.
Assuming the device is still operating properly, there are a lot of uses
for a working “1Hz off” 5 MHz
OCXO …..
Bob
Post by Mark Goldberg
I agree they likely won't provide a schematic and will want it back for
repair. If it is a proprietary design for someone, they may not even
repair
Post by Mark Goldberg
it for you and certainly won't give you any info. I was at least able
to
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
get a little info from Wenzel about a similar oscillator I was looking
at
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
and they gave me hints about what the one I had was not, basically not
telling me info but keeping me from heading down the wrong path. If you
ask
Post by Mark Goldberg
nicely via email and are understanding about their situation with
proprietary products, maybe they will be of some help.
I have reverse engineered a couple of oscillators. You don't have to
reverse engineer the whole thing, just the frequency adjustment
section.
Post by Bob kb8tq
I
Post by Mark Goldberg
don't know anything about this oscillator but you can determine what
the
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
available adjustment is, a pot or a trimmer cap. If it is a pot, is
there
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
another resistor that sets the course adjustment? If it is a trimmer
cap,
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
there is usually a parallel cap that sets the course adjustment.
Possibly
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
those could be replaced with different values to get the adjustment
range
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
back. Worth a try.
If you can look at the circuit around the crystal, you likely can
determine
Post by Mark Goldberg
what the oscillator topology is.
Can you tell if the oven is working? Typically it will draw more
current
Post by Bob kb8tq
on
Post by Mark Goldberg
startup and then reduce the current draw after a while when it gets to
temperature. I've found broken heater wires before.
Regards,
Mark
Post by paul swed
Ulf
I have no details. But perhaps off list we could reverse engineer it.
Simply a suggestion. Especially since you have it open.
Regards
Paul
WB8TSL
Post by Bob kb8tq
Hi
Even with an “account”, most oscillator companies will not supply
internal
Post by Bob kb8tq
details on their product. That’s in part
to protect their IP. It also reflects the complexity of tracing back
to
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
exactly what doc’s apply to an older unit. The
normal drill is for you to send it back and they take a look at it.
They
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
then quote a repair charge and you either
go ahead with it or have them send it back.
Bob
On Oct 25, 2018, at 1:56 PM, Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts <
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz
8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It
had
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they
are
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly
helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant
informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for
months
Post by Bob kb8tq
Post by Mark Goldberg
Post by paul swed
Post by Bob kb8tq
and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about
thisunit
Post by Bob kb8tq
available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
http://lists.febo.com/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts_lists.febo.com
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
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Post by Mark Goldberg
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
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and follow the instructions there.
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and follow the instructions there.
--
--Jim Harman
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rfnuts
2018-10-25 20:45:05 UTC
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Hi Ulf,

I will be happy to help you with the repair.
I do have a B5400, which is a predecessor of the BVA series.
I had it completely dismanteled some years ago. It has a significantly
different design though.
Nevertheless, I'm into OCXO stuff, and I might be able to help, probably
only by having it physically in front of me.

Worst case, you can still decide to scrap it, but in that case I would
be happy to take the parts. The dewar, for example, would be great for
someone who hase a BVA with broken dewar, or alike.

Adrian

DL4GBO
Post by Ulf Kylenfall via time-nuts
Many monts ago I approached the list regarding an Oscilloquartz 8600-3(945.860.011.03 s/n 422) 5 MHz Ovenized Crystal Oscillator. It had aged and was 1 Hz off and couldnot be braught back to 5.000.000 MHz.
Since I did not have "an account" with Oscilloquartz or what they are calledtoday, I was not able to get any help from them.
There was one answer off the list from someone who could possibly helpbut that person either forgot or did not have any relevant informationto share.
A box with the dismantled unit has been laying on my shelf for months and I am therefore asking again. If there is no information about thisunit available I will scrap it. I do not know of any other forumto ask.
Best Regards
Ulf KylenfallSM6GXV
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ed breya
2018-10-25 22:30:46 UTC
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It seems rather drastic to scrap a basically working unit for lack of
info. If you can't find anything, then there's a wide range of
possibilities - you've got nothing to loose then, so try tweaking the
circuit design a little. It should be evident where the coarse tuning
and oscillator circuitry is. If the oven is operational and gets hot,
then assume its temperature is about right, or measure and compare to
any markings inside - many OC crystals I've seen have the turnover
marked right on them, or on the assembly. Then figure out just the
coarse tuning section circuit, and you'll be able to see how to move the
frequency a hair either way, usually by changing the value of a fixed
capacitor (but can sometimes be done by changing an inductor) in the
oscillator.

Good luck.
Ed

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