Discussion:
(no subject)
Add Reply
Robert Benward
2010-05-22 01:15:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?

Any opinions on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666a1

Thank you in advance.

Bob
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Bob Camp
2010-05-22 01:22:52 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi

I think if you do a search for z3801a programs, you will find several programs that will also work on the 3805

Bob
Post by Robert Benward
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Nic McLean
2010-05-22 01:34:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Lady Heather is free and a good start.(Just do a google search)
Nic
VK2KXN / VK5ZAT

Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I

get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but

the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?

Any opinions on this one:




_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Bob Camp
2010-05-22 02:28:56 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi

I thought that LH was a TBolt only sort of thing.....

A few things you will find on the 3805:

There is a lot of stuff that says it's RS-422. Most seem to be set up for RS-232.

Some say that there are telcom outputs (E1/T1). If so they are pretty well hidden.

The front panel comes off pretty easily. It's just as functional without the clunky front panel. It's not as pretty....

Bob
Post by Nic McLean
Lady Heather is free and a good start.(Just do a google search)
Nic
VK2KXN / VK5ZAT
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Rex
2010-05-22 02:46:48 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Robert Benward
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Rex
2010-05-22 03:00:43 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Sorry about the empty post -- hit the send key by accident.

Ulrich's free Z38XX program works great as a monitor for the Z3805. He
added some stuff to specifically support differences from a Z3801. The
Z3801 programs can be used but can't support the extra satellites the
3805 can track.

Available here: http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html

The lower 25-pin connector is the serial port you want to connect your
PC to. Someone mentioned 488; I think that is only on Z3801's. My Z3805
has a serial interface on the lower 25-pin connector.

You do know that you need an external active GPS antenna, I hope? You
never mentioned that you had connected one.

It takes a long time to lock the first time in a new location because it
has to do a survey first. You can make it go a bit quicker if you use
the monitor program to set your latitude an longitude close first. The
box should eventually lock without a PC monitoring, but you will, no
doubt, feel much better if you can see the satellites it is tracking and
any status messages as it goes through the process.

The monitor commands are very similar to the Z3801. You should be able
to find some Z3801 user documentation and command reference docs on the net.

Hope that helps a bit.

-Rex
Post by Robert Benward
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
jimlux
2010-05-22 04:15:40 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Rex
Sorry about the empty post -- hit the send key by accident.
Ulrich's free Z38XX program works great as a monitor for the Z3805. He
added some stuff to specifically support differences from a Z3801. The
Z3801 programs can be used but can't support the extra satellites the
3805 can track.
Available here: http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html
The lower 25-pin connector is the serial port you want to connect your
PC to. Someone mentioned 488; I think that is only on Z3801's. My Z3805
has a serial interface on the lower 25-pin connector.
On the 3801 (and probably the 3805, those who know can correct me) there
are some jumpers inside that set the style of serial i/o: rs422 or
rs232. You should check to see which it is, before you hook it up.

_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Robert Benward
2010-05-22 04:34:37 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Bob, Nic, Rex & Jimlux, Thank you all for you timely responses!

The RS-232 is already hooked up, as well as the power supply. I purchased it from someone who was using it in his radio
shop. He had two, so he was selling his extra. This is the HP version, not the Symmetricom, it has the smaller front
panel, I'm assuming it's the same part number, it has all the same guts. I am using a Garmin marine GPS antenna. I
was under the impression the unit would track on it's own, and the software was just for monitoring and fine tuning. In
any case, I will try and download Ulrich's program. Thanks again, I will keep you all posted on my progress.

Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rex" <rexa-65eDfwRo+***@public.gmane.org>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, May 21, 2010 11:00 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Post by Rex
Sorry about the empty post -- hit the send key by accident.
Ulrich's free Z38XX program works great as a monitor for the Z3805. He added some stuff to specifically support
differences from a Z3801. The Z3801 programs can be used but can't support the extra satellites the 3805 can track.
Available here: http://www.ulrich-bangert.de/html/downloads.html
The lower 25-pin connector is the serial port you want to connect your PC to. Someone mentioned 488; I think that is
only on Z3801's. My Z3805 has a serial interface on the lower 25-pin connector.
You do know that you need an external active GPS antenna, I hope? You never mentioned that you had connected one.
It takes a long time to lock the first time in a new location because it has to do a survey first. You can make it go
a bit quicker if you use the monitor program to set your latitude an longitude close first. The box should eventually
lock without a PC monitoring, but you will, no doubt, feel much better if you can see the satellites it is tracking
and any status messages as it goes through the process.
The monitor commands are very similar to the Z3801. You should be able to find some Z3801 user documentation and
command reference docs on the net.
Hope that helps a bit.
-Rex
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past weekend. How do I get it to work? Do I need software to
run this, or can it run stand alone. I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the GPS lock, and more
importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an 10MHz output, but the holdover light is not on. Is there any
freeware available? Any recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z3816A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hal Murray
2010-05-22 04:54:53 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
I am using a Garmin marine GPS antenna. I was under the impression the
unit would track on it's own, and the software was just for monitoring and
fine tuning.
If it's like the Z3801A, it probably "knows" where it was last located and is
having troubles trying to make sense out of the signals it's receiving in its
new home.

You need to tell it to do a survey.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.




_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Robert Benward
2010-05-22 05:00:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Murray,
If the gps hasn't been turned on in a while, it will need to download a new ephemeris. With the new ephemeris, it can
find it position much faster because it will know pretty close where the satellites are, and how much to offset the
tracking code. I left the unit on for about an hour, but without the enable light, I suspect it was just idling waiting
for commands.

Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal Murray" <hmurray-8cQiHa/C+6Go9G/***@public.gmane.org>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 12:54 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Post by Hal Murray
I am using a Garmin marine GPS antenna. I was under the impression the
unit would track on it's own, and the software was just for monitoring and
fine tuning.
If it's like the Z3801A, it probably "knows" where it was last located and is
having troubles trying to make sense out of the signals it's receiving in its
new home.
You need to tell it to do a survey.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Hal Murray
2010-05-22 07:26:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Caveat: I've never worked with a 3805. I do have a 380. I'm assuming they
are close.
Post by Robert Benward
If the gps hasn't been turned on in a while, it will need to download a new
ephemeris. With the new ephemeris, it can find it position much faster
because it will know pretty close where the satellites are, and how much to
offset the tracking code.
Yes, that's one problem. But there are two types of GPS receivers. The
common ones are optimized for navigation: location and velocity.

The other type has slightly different firmware optimized for timing. If you
know where you are located, you can do a better job of interpreting the noisy
data and/or get decent time with as few as 1 satellite.

I suspect your unit is confused because it "knows" the wrong location.

The manual for the Z3801A is widely available on the net. (If you can't find
it, I'll mail you a copy.) It has good descriptions of the status page and
the survey process.


If you have a terminal program you can probably figure out how to talk to to
your 3805. The Z3801A runs at 19.2, 7 bits, odd parity. I don't know about
the 3805 and a quick google didn't find anything. If you can't find it with
trial and error, somebody on this list knows.

If you send it ":SYSTEM:STATUS?" a Z3801A will send you back a status page.
In particular, there is a chunk of the page that shows the satellites it's
using and the ones it's trying to lock up to.

":GPS:POS:SURV ONCE" will tell it to do a survey. (That's assuming it's the
same as a Z3801.) It will take a long time, depending on how good your
antenna is. You can watch the progress with the status page.

The commands above may need the right CR/LF type magic after the text string.
My notes don't say anything so I expect the 3801 is forgiving. (Or I was
lucky. I'm running Linux so my luck may not transfer to Windows.)


In this context, the Z3801A is different from the TBolt.

The Z3801A automatically saves the new location in Flash when the survey
completes. The TBolt doesn't do that unless you tell it to.

So on power up, the Z3801A that was working but has been moved to a new
location will be confused because it has remembered the wrong location. On
the other hand, a TBolt that was never told to save its location will
automatically do another survey and eventually start working.
--
These are my opinions, not necessarily my employer's. I hate spam.




_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Ulrich Bangert
2010-05-22 09:50:13 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Bob,

everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that has
already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, you
do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically I
have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with
Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise
diagnose a fault.

Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15
Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past
weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it
run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the
GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an
10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381
6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666
a1

Thank you in advance.

Bob
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Bob Camp
2010-05-22 12:57:33 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi

The lower connector on the 3805 is the "command" port that appears to have the 422 / 232 option jumpers associated with it.

The upper connector looks like it's only wired for RS-232 . It's connected to the lower board in the unit. What's it for?

Bob
Post by Ulrich Bangert
Bob,
everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that has
already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, you
do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically I
have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with
Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise
diagnose a fault.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15
Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past
weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it
run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the
GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an
10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381
6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666
a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Robert Benward
2010-05-22 13:49:59 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi Ulrich,
Thank you for your response. I hope to try it today if I can get away from household duties. Will I need to leave the
computer hooked up, or will it run stand alone once I set it up?

Thanks,
Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ulrich Bangert" <df6jb-***@public.gmane.org>
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'" <time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:50 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Ulrich Bangert
Bob,
everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that has
already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, you
do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically I
have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with
Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise
diagnose a fault.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15
Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past
weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it
run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the
GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an
10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381
6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666
a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Robert Benward
2010-05-22 19:07:32 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Hi All,
I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish communications with the Z3805. I tried a
null modem as well, in case the cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong connector gender. I see a green blinking
light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is warm, but nothing else. Any ideas?

Bob


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Benward" <rbenward-H+***@public.gmane.org>
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Robert Benward
Hi Ulrich,
Thank you for your response. I hope to try it today if I can get away from household duties. Will I need to leave
the computer hooked up, or will it run stand alone once I set it up?
Thanks,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:50 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Ulrich Bangert
Bob,
everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that has
already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, you
do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically I
have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with
Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise
diagnose a fault.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15
Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past
weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it
run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the
GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an
10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381
6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666
a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Bill Hawkins
2010-05-22 20:08:51 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
When all else fails, get out the voltmeter.

Do you have power to the antenna? Is it the right voltage? All the way to
the antenna?

What volts are on pins 2 or 3 relative to pin 7 in the comm connector?

If you see 12 volts, that's RS-422. You may have burned out your computer's
serial port.

If you see less than 5 volts, that's RS-232 and all should be well, unless
you see zero volts.

I may have the RS-xxx volts somewhat off because my memory isn't what it
used to be.

The guy you bought it from should be able to help with comm basics.

Bill Hawkins


-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Benward
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)

Hi All,
I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish
communications with the Z3805. I tried a
null modem as well, in case the cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong
connector gender. I see a green blinking
light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is warm, but
nothing else. Any ideas?

Bob




_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Didier Juges
2010-05-22 22:21:17 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Bill, I think you got it backwards. +/- 12V is typical for RS-232, 0/+5V is
for RS-422 and RS-485.

No RS-232 receiver should be damaged with +/- 12V or even +/- 15V because
that is their normal operating voltage.

Also, RS-422 and RS-485 have something like 25V common mode tolerance (not
sure what the actual spec is there,) so that the RS-422 and RS-485 receivers
should not be damaged by 15V either. The RS-422 drivers are pretty low
impedance, while the RS-232 drivers are current limited, so I don't think
that connecting an RS-232 driver into an RS-422 driver will damage either.

However, most recent (<10 years?) RS-232 receivers will work with a 0/+3V or
0/+5V input, conveniently having a threshold a few 10's or 100's of mV above
ground, even though the original RS-232 spec required receivers that work
with as low as +/- 3V, and drivers that deliver +/- 9V minimum. Many
commercial systems use +/- 5V drivers for RS-232 (B&B Electronics sells a
lot of converters with these voltages). This is a deliciously sloppy spec
that nobody has met in the last 25 years probably, yet works most of the
time.

The one thing to avoid is to short an RS-422 (or RS-485) driver to ground,
as that can actually cause damage, maybe not every time, but definitely not
recommended. These have relatively high current output capability to drive
long lines.

Didier KO4BB


-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Hawkins
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:09 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)

When all else fails, get out the voltmeter.

Do you have power to the antenna? Is it the right voltage? All the way to
the antenna?

What volts are on pins 2 or 3 relative to pin 7 in the comm connector?

If you see 12 volts, that's RS-422. You may have burned out your computer's
serial port.

If you see less than 5 volts, that's RS-232 and all should be well, unless
you see zero volts.

I may have the RS-xxx volts somewhat off because my memory isn't what it
used to be.

The guy you bought it from should be able to help with comm basics.

Bill Hawkins


-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of Robert Benward
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)

Hi All,
I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish
communications with the Z3805. I tried a
null modem as well, in case the cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong
connector gender. I see a green blinking
light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is warm, but
nothing else. Any ideas?

Bob




_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Bruce Griffiths
2010-05-22 22:39:21 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Didier Juges
Bill, I think you got it backwards. +/- 12V is typical for RS-232, 0/+5V is
for RS-422 and RS-485.
No RS-232 receiver should be damaged with +/- 12V or even +/- 15V because
that is their normal operating voltage.
Also, RS-422 and RS-485 have something like 25V common mode tolerance (not
sure what the actual spec is there,) so that the RS-422 and RS-485 receivers
should not be damaged by 15V either. The RS-422 drivers are pretty low
impedance, while the RS-232 drivers are current limited, so I don't think
that connecting an RS-232 driver into an RS-422 driver will damage either.
Picking one RS485 receiver (ADM1485) at random the receiver absolute
maximum (no damage) input range is -14V to +14V.
The RS485 receiver operating common mode range is -7V to +12V.
RS422 receivers have an input operating range of -7V to +7V.
The no damage RS422 receiver input ratings may be higher.
Post by Didier Juges
However, most recent (<10 years?) RS-232 receivers will work with a 0/+3V or
0/+5V input, conveniently having a threshold a few 10's or 100's of mV above
ground, even though the original RS-232 spec required receivers that work
with as low as +/- 3V, and drivers that deliver +/- 9V minimum. Many
commercial systems use +/- 5V drivers for RS-232 (B&B Electronics sells a
lot of converters with these voltages). This is a deliciously sloppy spec
that nobody has met in the last 25 years probably, yet works most of the
time.
The one thing to avoid is to short an RS-422 (or RS-485) driver to ground,
as that can actually cause damage, maybe not every time, but definitely not
recommended. These have relatively high current output capability to drive
long lines.
Didier KO4BB
Bruce
Post by Didier Juges
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Bill Hawkins
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:09 PM
To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
When all else fails, get out the voltmeter.
Do you have power to the antenna? Is it the right voltage? All the way to
the antenna?
What volts are on pins 2 or 3 relative to pin 7 in the comm connector?
If you see 12 volts, that's RS-422. You may have burned out your computer's
serial port.
If you see less than 5 volts, that's RS-232 and all should be well, unless
you see zero volts.
I may have the RS-xxx volts somewhat off because my memory isn't what it
used to be.
The guy you bought it from should be able to help with comm basics.
Bill Hawkins
-----Original Message-----
Behalf Of Robert Benward
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 2:08 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Hi All,
I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish
communications with the Z3805. I tried a
null modem as well, in case the cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong
connector gender. I see a green blinking
light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is warm, but
nothing else. Any ideas?
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
jmfranke
2010-05-22 21:04:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Have you looked at the serial connector with an oscilloscope? Pin 2 should
be the output data. Pin 3 is for data going into the GPS. And pin 7 is
ground. I use Z3801A systems which have a 25-pin connector. Other systems
use a 9-pin serial connector. The only difference should be the ground
which is on pin 5 for the 9-pin connector. Have you looked at:
http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm

John WA4WDL

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Benward" <rbenward-H+***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:07 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
<time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Robert Benward
Hi All,
I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish
communications with the Z3805. I tried a null modem as well, in case the
cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong connector gender. I see a green
blinking light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is
warm, but nothing else. Any ideas?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Robert Benward
Hi Ulrich,
Thank you for your response. I hope to try it today if I can get away
from household duties. Will I need to leave the computer hooked up, or
will it run stand alone once I set it up?
Thanks,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:50 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Ulrich Bangert
Bob,
everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that has
already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, you
do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically I
have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with
Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise
diagnose a fault.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15
Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past
weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it
run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the
GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an
10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381
6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666
a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
Ed, k1ggi
2010-05-23 00:54:09 UTC
Reply
Permalink
Raw Message
Point of clarification, on a PC RS-232 port, expect to find TxD (output) on
pin 2 of a 25-pin D-sub, and on pin 3 of on a 9-pin D-sub.

This is a sign of terminal configuration (DTE), and a PC is conventionally a
terminal. It would be surprising if your PC isn't.

If you don't have a scope, a dc measurement can help clear the air. The
resting state of the PC RS-232 TxD pin will be a negative voltage, expect
anywhere between -5 and -12 (beyond that would be a little surprising).
Easily measured because you can get right on the male pins. The RxD pin wont
have much if any on it compared to the TxD. A RS-422 pin should generally
not measure negative at all.

Don't know the Z38xx family, but my tbolt is DCE, and hooks up with a
straight 9-pin cable, which is very convenient as it can be a neat molded
straight extension cable or mass-terminated ribbon. For this, you need to
find negative resting TxD on pin 2 (so it goes to RxD on the PC).

The original Mac had RS-422 (unipolar differential) characteristics that a
lot of folks successfully wired directly to RS-232 (bipolar singe-ended),
driving one of the differential RxD pins and choosing the right polarity of
TxD. Success is mainly a matter of polarity, thresholds, length, and noise
margins.

Do the Z- boxes look for hardware handshaking?

Ed

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:time-nuts-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On
Behalf Of jmfranke
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:04 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)

Have you looked at the serial connector with an oscilloscope? Pin 2 should
be the output data. Pin 3 is for data going into the GPS. And pin 7 is
ground. I use Z3801A systems which have a 25-pin connector. Other systems
use a 9-pin serial connector. The only difference should be the ground
which is on pin 5 for the 9-pin connector. Have you looked at:
http://www.realhamradio.com/GPS_Frequency_Standard.htm

John WA4WDL

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Benward" <rbenward-H+***@public.gmane.org>
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 3:07 PM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
<time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Robert Benward
Hi All,
I hooked everything up and I still get nothing. I can't seem to establish
communications with the Z3805. I tried a null modem as well, in case the
cable (supplied) was wired with the wrong connector gender. I see a green
blinking light inside, it he left rear corner of the box. Everything is
warm, but nothing else. Any ideas?
Bob
----- Original Message -----
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 9:49 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Robert Benward
Hi Ulrich,
Thank you for your response. I hope to try it today if I can get away
from household duties. Will I need to leave the computer hooked up, or
will it run stand alone once I set it up?
Thanks,
Bob
----- Original Message -----
To: "'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement'"
Sent: Saturday, May 22, 2010 5:50 AM
Subject: [time-nuts] Z3805 utility, Was: AW: (no subject)
Post by Ulrich Bangert
Bob,
everything you need for the Z3805 is included in my Z38XX utility, that has
already been mentioned. This includes sending commands to the receiver, you
do not need another terminal program. I own a Z3805 myself and basically
I
have written the software for myself. A Z3801 manual in conjunction with
Z38XX should take you pretty far in either get it to run or otherwise
diagnose a fault.
Best regards
Ulrich Bangert
-----Ursprungliche Nachricht-----
Gesendet: Samstag, 22. Mai 2010 03:15
Betreff: [time-nuts] (no subject)
Hi,
I just purchased a Z3805A at the Dayton hamfest this past
weekend. How do I
get it to work? Do I need software to run this, or can it
run stand alone.
I have turned it on, but only the power light comes on, the
GPS lock, and
more importantly, the enable light is not on. There is an
10MHz output, but
the holdover light is not on. Is there any freeware available? Any
recommendations?
http://cgi.ebay.com/GPS-Receiver-Program-HP-Z3801A-Z3805A-Z381
6A-58540A-/250566043297?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a56e666
Post by Robert Benward
Post by Robert Benward
Post by Ulrich Bangert
a1
Thank you in advance.
Bob
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.


_______________________________________________
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts-***@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Loading...